“For I say unto you, Ye [Israel] shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.”
Vince Dhimos on Quora.
How do you envision that a war between Israel and Iran would play out, were it to break out in Syria?
Vince Dhimos, Editor-in-Chief at New Silk Strategies (2016-present)
Answered Feb 6
Iran claims to have well over 100,000 missiles, some with long enough ranges that they could hit Israel.
They have warned that if Israel keeps provoking and starts a war, they will finish off Israel once and for all.
This is complicated by the fact that Israel has nukes, probably over 100, that could also destroy Iran.
Russia is doing its best to bring peace in the Middle East. Even when Israel lobs missiles into the Damascus international airport, Russia does virtually nothing to retaliate.
However, the US eggs Israel on, sending it more and more weapons with which to destabilize the region. There is only one thing that could possibly bring peace to the region — and the world as well — and that would be a change in US policy to stop tacitly endorsing the belligerence of Israel.
If it happens, it will be a slow process. There are two main things holding back peace:
The good news is that, according to polls, young college Jews in America are no longer supporting Israel. They are now increasingly supportive of the Palestinian victims. As for the “Christian” Zionists, younger Evangelicals are also slowly dropping their blind belief that the modern Israel is really the incarnation of Ezekiel’s prophesied Israel.
But “Christian” Zionism and AIPAC still have plenty of power and it remains to be seen if these two bellicose factors can diminish in time to avoid a nuclear confrontation in the Middle East.
A Response from Tim Benton on Quora:
I must say, what a bunch of nonsense. First, you conveniently leave out that Iran is the one sponsoring, training, supplying arms and finances to every Terrorist group in the region that is arrayed against Israel.
You also forgot to add that they are not only doing this against Israel but Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Arab world.
[Vince: In my response, I did not address this accusation that Iran is “sponsoring, training, supplying arms and finances… to every terrorist group in the region that is arrayed …. against Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Arab world.” This is a very important part of the propaganda used by Israel to persuade America to attack and invade Middle Eastern countries, and it is a bold-faced lie because the non-Arab Iran is absolutely not a threat to the “rest of the Arab world,” as Israeli propagandists want us to believe. In fact it is an ally of Syria, Iraq and Lebanon and a partner in the fight against Al-Qaeda and ISIS, the real terror in Syria and Iraq. In fact, without Iran, Lebanon would have been totally destroyed by Israel in 2006. Now why would Israel be concerned about a threat to the most brutal dictatorship – Saudi Arabia – in the Arab world? Israel falsely claims it is “the only democracy in the Middle East. So why does it so wholeheartedly support one of the few countries in the Middle East that is not a democracy? It has very close ties to Saudi but its propaganda ignores the fact that the people of Saudi Arabia do not agree with its policy of rapprochement to Israel. They do not even accept that Israel is a nation. Only the royals accept this and the only reason the people have not overthrown these dictators is that they are paid an extravagantly high living wage out of the massive revenues from Saudi oil. This is hush money, a bribe intended to keep them restful, but it is slowly evaporating as the oil is depleted. Saudi has a shelf life. The same applies to the Gulf statelets, whose people also reject the statehood of Israel. But that is not based so much on hatred of the Jews but rather on the fact that they perceive the founding of Israel as an illegal and immoral displacement of the Arabs who inhabited that land for centuries before the Zionists brutally took it over (and if you don’t think the Zionists were brutal, view this video. Israeli propaganda ignores the fact that the majority of Arabs reject Israeli statehood and even most of their presidents do not recognize Israel. This fact is hidden from view in the West because most of the leaders do not blatantly and openly state their opinion on Israel. One of several such examples is Algeria, whose media do not often openly discuss its non-recognition of Israel for fear of US reprisals. 30 UN member states do not recognize Israel and are to some degree in line with Iran’s position. Thus it is Tim Benton’s response that is “complete nonsense” because it implies that Iran is arrayed against the Arab world when in fact, most Arabs are silently cheering it on as it boldly opposes Israel’s criminal actions in their neighbourhood. Remember: without US support, Israel would have to stop its illegal behaviour. The real criminals are US Christians who “stand with Israel” in support of its crimes and brutality]
Tim’s response resumed:
Iran at the present time has at max 250 missiles that could reach Israel, to fire any of the rest, they would have to move them either towards the Iraqi coast, that would draw the US in, or they would have to move them to Syria, that would draw massive attacks, possibly an invasion by Israel. [Vince: Yes, Israel has been attacking Iranian positions since the start of the war, but these are all illegal since Iran is not attacking Israel and is in Syria as a guest of the Syrian people, who are grateful for its support against the terrorists who almost defeated the Syrian army in 2015 (despite the US’ phony “war on terror”) when Russia stepped in and saved the day. Of course, Trump insists HIS administration defeated the terrorists.]
Since I deal with Christians, my father happens to be one, I know what they believe, they believe that not only Daniel, the New Testament or Christian scriptures teach that as well, the king spoken of will come later, not as Israel forms, suggest you read what they call the book of revelations, seems your timing is way off. [Note the total lack of specifics here, making it impossible for me to address this]
But none of this is the real reason they support Israel, the reason is the verse that says if you bless Israel you will be blessed, if you curse or stand against them you will be cursed. Genesis 12:3.
The myth that Christians are supporting Israel for the sake of the event they call the rapture, for the most part, that is false, but they do believe that when you see the Jews returning that it is nearing the end of time.
I am Jewish, but my father knows this much better than I, you seem to be off on your facts, although I am without a doubt some “Christians” believe as you state. [Note, I am supposedly off on my facts but Tim, a typical Israeli propagandist, does not say which facts are “off” or on what basis. Israeli propaganda is some of the most poorly stated in the world because they rely on US military support for Israel, not on factual evidence, and they have become used to any opponents being muzzled by the accusation of “anti-Semitism,” which is liberally applied to anyone who points out their flaws. This ability to crush opponents without mustering facts and cogent arguments has greatly weakened their propaganda base, which is now collapsing as the “anti-Semitism” accusation is challenged]
“I must say, what a bunch of nonsense. First, you conveniently leave out that Iran is the one sponsoring, training, supplying arms and finances to every Terrorist group in the region that is arrayed against Israel.”
Firstly, when you open up with an insult, calling the opponent’s view nonsense, that insults not only your opponent but also the reader. Ad hominem should be avoided UNLESS you have no cogent argument and are forced to use an ad hominem approach. The best approach by far is to present FACTS that disprove what the opponent said and then let the reader decide who is spouting nonsense.
Your second error is not naming a single terror group that is supported by Iran. I suppose you were thinking mainly of Hezbollah perhaps? Hezbollah – along with Iran -- is only considered a terrorist group in the US, Saudi Arabia and Israel. In Lebanon, Hezbollah is honoured as the group that saved the country when Israel invaded in 2006. Hezbollah is now one of the major political parties in Lebanon and is respected by both branches of Islam and by Christians. It is hard to hate a group that has saved your country.
Now let’s back up and look at those three countries that hate Iran and Hezbollah.
In the US, the largest voting bloc is Evangelicals, 80% of whom are “Christian” Zionists, whose misreading of the Old Testament makes them believe that the present day Israel is the Israel prophesied in Ezekiel 37. But verse 24 of that chapter clearly dispels that notion, prophesying that this Israel will be obedient to God, whereas 65% of Israelis have no religion whatsoever. The US is a free country so no one can prevent people with a completely false exegesis of the Bible from proclaiming their beliefs. Sadly, though, in the case of “Christian” Zionists, these beliefs are the fuel that keeps the fires of war burning in the Middle East. Not until American Christians learn to read or analyse texts will this monstrous threat to world peace be tamed.
You say that God says in Genesis that He will curse them who curse “Israel” and bless them that bless her. Actually, it does not say that at all. Here is the passage you and most Evangelicals are misreading (NOT misinterpreting, misreading):
12 Now the Lord had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:
2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.
Now here is your quiz: Whom was God addressing? Was he addressing Israel, as most Establishment mega-church pastors will tell you?
Verse 1 clearly says he was addressing Abram. He was not addressing Israel because Israel did not yet exist. So God was saying He would bless those how bless Abram (Abraham), NOT Israel, and curse them that curse Abram, not Israel. The use of “thee” in the KJV quoted here reflects the use of the Hebrew manner of addressing a single person as opposed to several.
As for Revelation, you say I am ignoring it but you did not say what passage I am ignoring. That makes it impossible to address this, which is convenient for you. There is one verse in Revelation that specifically speaks of Jews, and that is versue 3:9, but that verse refers to false Jews and reads as follows:
9 I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet ...
If I were to attempt to tie this in with Ezekiel 37, perhaps I could theorize that this illustrates how we should interpret Ezekiel 37:24, which says the resurrected Israel will obey God, whereas there are Jews – 65% of Israelis – who do not worship God. But since I do not know what passage of Revelation you are referring to, and perhaps you are not too sure either, I will consider that beyond the scope of this discussion.
Nonetheless, if you wish to pursue your Revelation discussion, I will try to oblige you.
At any rate, the US is one of the three countries that are trying desperately to make the case that Iran and Hezbollah are somehow linked to terror.
Another is Saudi Arabia, and when you consider that all the major terror groups in Syria and Iraq are Wahhabists – the main religion of Saudi – and that Iran is fighting these terror groups, your argument is rather weak.
The other country is, of course, Israel, which, according to the IDF chief, has fired at least 800 missiles into Syria. Thus it is hard to conceive of Israel having the moral authority to call another party a terrorist.
So to sum it up, we have one country that pretends Iran and Hezbollah are terrorists because of a misreading of the Bible – in other words, out of rank religious fanaticism, another country, Saudi Arabia, whose credibility is nil as a judge of terrorism – because it is a terror supporter itself, and finally, a country that kills unarmed protesters in Palestine, settles illegally on Palestinian land, bullies Palestinians by raiding homes and arresting underage children as “terrorists” for throwing stones (!), drafts Orthodox women into the IDF whose religion forbids them from serving, attacks a sovereign country unprovoked, has attacked Lebanon unprovoked and almost destroyed that sovereign country, has accrued many UN resolutions and condemnations against if and generally acts as a state terrorist.
And the religious fanatics in the US and the terror supporters in Saudi Arabia are the only others who call Hezbollah a terrorist group? Isn’t that about it?
Finally you say:
“The myth that Christians are supporting Israel for the sake of the event they call the rapture, for the most part, that is false, but they do believe that when you see the Jews returning that it is nearing the end of time.”
It is not clear what you are calling a myth. Is the rapture a myth or is it a myth that Christians support Israel because of the rapture idea.
However, here again, “Christian” Zionists are way out of line. Their name “Christian” Zionists implies that they are supporting Christ’s teachings about the Jews. However, Christ said very little to his followers about how they should relate to the Jews. His most important statement that provides a clue is in Matthew 23:
37 “Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were not willing.38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, ‘Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.’[c]”
The clue as to how the followers should relate to the Jews is NOT a statement that they should help God fulfil a prophecy about Jerusalem, as “Christian” Zionists want you to believe. As you said, they think Christians are supposed to support a secular state called Israel that does not obey God’s rules, and if they support this secular state and make Jerusalem the capital (as Trump wants to do), this will hasten his return. He never even hinted that this might be so.
Instead, He implied that Christians should evangelize among the Jews, and only when the Jews have accepted Him – calling Him blessed – can He come again, and they will see him again.
US pastors are brainwashed and support the Establishment, which in turn supports Israel with guns to kill their neighbours – though this is forbidden in their own Torah (in Leviticus, God commands the Jews to love their neighbours as themselves!) and hence in the Christian Bible as well.
Christ was saying in this key passage that unless Jews come and worship Him, they will not see him again. But He also taught that the only way people can learn of the Gospel is if they are taught. So clearly, Christians are supposed to evangelize among the Jews.
Instead they send them guns. If they believed Jesus’ words, they would realize that they themselves are holding up the Second Coming and the Jews are the ones paying the price for the sins of Christians!
Tim’s response included this text:
“Now in regards to your claim of Christian teaching, I am Jewish, so stop with that stupidity.”
I deliberately drew out Tim’s feelings toward Christianity by addressing “Christian” Zionism and quoting from the NT to show how un-Christian their views on Israel are. I did not endorse Christianity, just showed how these “Christians” are disregarding Christ’s teachings in their support for the warlike Israeli Establishment.
What Tim calls “that stupidity” is in fact, as he makes abundantly plain, the teachings of Christ, which all “Christian” Zionists respect. Thus, Tim perfectly illustrates the fact that Israel accepts the money and weapons supplied thanks to the efforts of “Christian” Zionists like Mike Pence, and his millions of supporters, for example, but at the same time, many Israelis viscerally despise Christ’s teachings. BTW, note the difference between the respect that Muslims show Jesus, believing that He is a prophet, and the utter undisguised hatred toward Him of some of the people US “Christians” support unconditionally. Yet American Christians are taught to hate and distrust Muslims and support Israel. My point is not that Jews must accept Jesus, but that Evangelicals must see the reality of how some (probably many) pro-Israel propagandists completely despise the people who support them the most.
Why do they so publicly display their hatred of Christian teachings?
It is not their fault. US Christians and other supporters of the secular state of Israel never criticize this total lack of respect for the beliefs of the people who work the hardest to support Israel and its horrible policies toward the Palestinians and their Arab and Iranian neighbours.
US Christian Zionists show the utmost respect for Israeli propagandists but get no respect at all in return.
But really, isn’t this what they ask for?